Cached credentials for RCC - still wishing

terje · Post by **terje** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:59 am

The Autostart option is great.

However I am still having problems getting all this to work on our Win2003 Terminal Server even though it works fine on an XP workstation. The relevant command is:-

rcc.exe -uniqueprofiles -storepassword

I have run REGMON on both the XP workstation and on the Win2003 machine to monitor what happens to registry keys in each case. The details are posted below. I can see some differences but still can't figure out why it works on one but not the other.

On the terminal server you can see the user id and password being read from the registry correctly. However the user just gets presented with the RCC login dialogue with all credentials blank. It is as if the RCC application retrieves it correctly from the registry but then does not pass it successfully to the login dialogue for some reason.

Any insights on why this might be broken would be very much appreciated.

On the XP Machine we get the following log:-

1683 18.08505440 rcc.exe:520 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS Access: 0x20019
1684 18.08507156 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
1685 18.08508492 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
1686 18.08509827 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
1687 18.08511162 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
1688 18.08513069 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
1689 18.08514214 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
1690 18.08515549 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
1691 18.08516884 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
1692 18.08518600 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Port SUCCESS 0x41E
1693 18.08520699 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Timeout SUCCESS 0x6
1694 18.08522797 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Refreshrate SUCCESS 0x1E
1695 18.08524513 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Confirmations SUCCESS 0x1
1696 18.08525848 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
1697 18.08527184 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
1698 18.08528519 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
1699 18.08529663 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
1700 18.08532333 rcc.exe:520 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
1701 18.08535385 rcc.exe:520 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS Access: 0x20019
1702 18.08536720 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessSndActions SUCCESS 0x0
1703 18.08538055 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessMsgActions SUCCESS 0x0
1704 18.08539391 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1705 18.08540726 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1706 18.08542061 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1707 18.08543205 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1708 18.08544731 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1709 18.08545876 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1710 18.08547211 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1711 18.08548355 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1712 18.08549881 rcc.exe:520 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\SoundRepeat NOT FOUND
1713 18.08553505 rcc.exe:520 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
1714 18.08556366 rcc.exe:520 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\UpdateCheck NOT FOUND
1715 18.34899521 rcc.exe:520 CreateKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS Access: 0xF003F
1716 18.34910202 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
1717 18.34919357 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
1718 18.34923172 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Port SUCCESS 0x41E
1719 18.34926414 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Timeout SUCCESS 0x6
1720 18.34929848 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Refreshrate SUCCESS 0x1E
1721 18.34931946 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Confirmations SUCCESS 0x1
1722 18.34935951 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
1723 18.34938622 rcc.exe:520 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
1724 18.34943199 rcc.exe:520 CreateKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS Access: 0xF003F
1725 18.34945297 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessSndActions SUCCESS 0x0
1726 18.34947205 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessMsgActions SUCCESS 0x0
1727 18.34949112 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1728 18.34950829 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
1729 18.34952927 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinConstPos SUCCESS 0x0
1730 18.34954834 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinAutoClose SUCCESS 0x0
1731 18.34956932 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinStayTop SUCCESS 0x0
1732 18.34958839 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinXPos SUCCESS 0x0
1733 18.34961128 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinYPos SUCCESS 0x0
1734 18.34963226 rcc.exe:520 SetValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\MsgWinTime SUCCESS 0x0
1735 18.34965515 rcc.exe:520 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS

On the Win2003 Server we get the following log:-

131 83.11988068 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
132 83.11991882 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
133 83.11994171 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
134 83.11995697 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
135 83.11998749 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
136 83.12000275 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
137 83.12001801 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
138 83.12004089 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
139 83.12005615 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Port SUCCESS 0x41E
140 83.12007141 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
141 83.12010193 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
142 83.12011719 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Timeout SUCCESS 0xC
143 83.12013245 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
144 83.12016296 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
145 83.12017822 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Refreshrate SUCCESS 0x1E
146 83.12019348 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
147 83.12021637 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
148 83.12023163 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Confirmations SUCCESS 0x0
149 83.12024689 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
150 83.12026978 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
151 83.12029266 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Pswd SUCCESS "trj"
152 83.12030792 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
153 83.12032318 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
154 83.12035370 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
155 83.12037659 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
156 83.12039185 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessSndActions SUCCESS 0x0
157 83.12040710 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
158 83.12043762 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
159 83.12045288 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\ProcessMsgActions SUCCESS 0x0
160 83.12046051 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
161 83.12048340 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
162 83.12049866 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\BadSoundFile SUCCESS ""
163 83.12051392 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
164 83.12053680 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
165 83.12055206 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\GoodSoundFile SUCCESS ""
166 83.12056732 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
167 83.12058258 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
168 83.12060547 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options\SoundRepeat NOT FOUND
169 83.12061310 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
170 83.12065887 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\Options SUCCESS
171 83.12069702 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\UpdateCheck NOT FOUND

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:22 pm

RCC works fine on our Windows 2003 Enterprise and regmon shows exactly the same log on Windows 2000, XP, 2003. It looks like log from your XP system.

Log from your 2003 system looks strange

132 83.11991882 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
133 83.11994171 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Host SUCCESS "ssyd-app01"
134 83.11995697 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
135 83.11998749 rcc.exe:2992 OpenKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS
136 83.12000275 rcc.exe:2992 QueryValue HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection\Login SUCCESS "terje"
137 83.12001801 rcc.exe:2992 CloseKey HKCU\Software\KS-Soft\RCC\LastConnection SUCCESS

RCC does not close/open key after each request. I don't know why your system does this. May be you have installed some 3rd party applications (registry cleaners? monitors?) that lead to this effect

Regards
Alex

terje · Post by **terje** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:38 pm

The only applications that are running that has anything to do with registry keys was REGMON (which captured the log shown). It was the same program (same version also) used to capture the log on the WinXP workstation.

The server is not just a Windows 2003 server. It is configured as a terminal server and the registry events captured were those of a remote terminal server session (ie not a console session).

I have manually checked and the log file reveals that there is no permissions problems with the registry keys. The Hostmonitor program appears to retrieve the details correctly. However the remote terminal server user is simply presented with RCC with all credentials blank and they need to enter them manually every time.

Hostmonitor version is 5.88 and we are used the corresponding version of RCC for the testing.

Hostmonitor has been installed on a separate server. RCC was installed on the Terminal server by copying the RCC.EXE file to the local hard drive.

Has RCC been tested in a terminal server environment?

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:38 pm

Has RCC been tested in a terminal server environment?

Nope

Regards
Alex

terje · Post by **terje** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:58 pm

Alex,

Thats disappointing. I hope it will be tested on terminal server sometime soon.

Last August when I asked about running hostmonitor on terminal server you suggested that I wait for RCC. At the time you said:-

"You will be able to use this console together with Terminal session, or without Terminal Server at all. It will provide access for many users, as you need it."

http://www.ks-soft.net/cgi-bin/phpBB/vi ... highlight=

Well I waited for RCC and then bought the product. RCC works on terminal server, however it appears from my experience to work differently on a Win2003 terminal server than on an WinXP work station. This is quite frustrating. I have put a lot of effort into trouble shooting this issue to try and ensure it is nothing to do with our specific deployment of terminal server. So far my testing reveals no evidence that it is anything other than a problem with RCC.

Don't get me wrong. Its a lovely product. And you guys are much more responsive than most developers. Its just that without this feature working correctly I can't get optimal usage out of our mobile engineering team and from the product.

Is there any chance that KS-Soft could test their product on a wider range of Microsoft platforms? In particular terminal server for RCC.

Regards,
Terje.

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:51 pm

Well I waited for RCC and then bought the product.

We can return money to your account. Please send order number to sales@ks-soft.net

Regards
Alex

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:56 pm

http://www.ks-soft.net/cgi-bin/phpBB/vi ... highlight=

Yes, I promised that we implement RCC. We did.
I said RCC will allow you to work with HostMonitor. It works.
But I never said that we implement everything you will request.

Thats disappointing. I hope it will be tested on terminal server sometime soon.

We never had a plan to implement such option, we did that only for your. At no cost. And we cannot spend a lot of time working on this issue.

And what exactly the problem? Your staff cannot remember the password and click "Connect" button?

Regards
Alex

terje · Post by **terje** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:12 pm

Your answer seems to be "No we won't be testing RCC cached credentials on terminal server".

Disappointing but certainly it is your perogative.

And what exactly the problem? Your staff cannot remember the password and click "Connect" button?

Actually they have to enter user name, password and then press connect.

The issue is they log in and out of terminal server a dozen times a day as they are mobile. Because they will only occasionally have faults to deal with in Hostmonitor, and lots of other important tasks in the interum it becomes easy to get into the habbit of skipping the Hostmonitor login a lot of the time. So we have to constantly restate that they need to log into hostmonitor every single time they are logged on. Hence it wastes not just engineering time but also management time.

However you have answered the question. You won't be testing RCC login with cached credentials on terminal server. I will get some third party software developed to automatically enter these details each time the users log into terminal server. Not as neat as fixing the root cause of the problem but it should still be achievable.

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:34 pm

This task has low priority. May be next week

The issue is they log in and out of terminal server a dozen times a day as they are mobile. Because they will only occasionally have faults to deal with in Hostmonitor, and lots of other important tasks in the interum it becomes easy to get into the habbit of skipping the Hostmonitor login a lot of the time. So we have to constantly restate that they need to log into hostmonitor every single time they are logged on. Hence it wastes not just engineering time but also management time.

Truth to say I do not understand you. Do not understand at all.
If you want to inform your co-workers about network problems, use actions: send e-mail, send message to pager or cell phone, icq.
If they are too busy to enter the password, how automatically started RCC will help you? They will not look at test items anyway.

Regards
Alex

KS-Soft · Post by **KS-Soft** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:33 am

Ok, RCC has been tested on Windows 2003 Terminal Server. Works fine

Regards
Alex

terje · Post by **terje** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:39 pm

I presume you mean that RCC with cached credentials has been tested on Terminal Server (Win2003) and the credentials cached just fine even when the user is not the administrator and is not logged in at the console.

In which case thankyou. Although now I am totally baffled.

Yoorix · Post by **Yoorix** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:01 am

terje wrote:I presume you mean that RCC with cached credentials has been tested on Terminal Server (Win2003) and the credentials cached just fine even when the user is not the administrator and is not logged in at the console.

Yes, we have tested this feature in such circumstances too.
We have created test user, who was the member of "Users" and "Remote Desktop Users" groups only. In such case, we were retrieving the error "Unable to write to xxx.ini file", but username and password have been stored successfully.

Regards,
Yoorix

terje · Post by **terje** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:12 pm

Yoorix,

Thanks for the feedback. It is a very strange problem.

In our case the password and userid is saved to the registry successfully. I can see using regedit that the values are in there. I can see that they change if I enter a different userid and password when I use RCC.

Also using Regmon I can see that the userid and password is retrieved by RCC successfully.

However when the Windows user is connected to the terminal server through a remote session then RCC does not display or use the userid and password that it retrieves. The three login requirements (host, userid, password) are simply blank and hence the autoconnect does not occur. The user has to enter all three of these parameters and then connect manually.

Given that the registry keys appear to be written and retrieved successfully I had eliminated registry key permissions as an issue. Whatever the cause it seems to be something very esoteric.

I also get an error message when I exit RCC that may be related. I had not noticed this until recently because I usually exit RCC by logging off my windows session. And the error message is slightly delayed after exiting RCC so if you move on quickly it can be missed. However on testing this error does occur consistently every time if I wait for it. The RCC error window that pops up says "Cannot change Visible in OnShow or OnHide". And the dialogue window includes a red cross suggesting that it is a bad thing to happen.

If I make the Windows user a member of Domain Admins then the above error message and the problem disappear. However giving everybody this level of permission is not appropriate.

Is there anything else (besides registry keys and rcc.ini) that the user needs elevated permission for?

Regards,
Terje.

terje · Post by **terje** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:42 pm

The following website may or may not be useful for the error message that I have encountered (see my message immediately above this one).

http://www.elists.org/pipermail/delphi/ ... 15138.html

If you google the error message there are lots of references to it for other programs. Mostly they seem to relate to the dialogue box being in focus. Although I don't know why permissions would alter this at all and why it would work on your system but not ours.

terje · Post by **terje** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:45 pm

I have upgraded to version 6.10 in the hope that it may have fixed this long standing problem. It still does not work.

On re-reading the previous discussion I note that Yoorix said:-

Yes, we have tested this feature in such circumstances too.
We have created test user, who was the member of "Users" and "Remote Desktop Users" groups only. In such case, we were retrieving the error "Unable to write to xxx.ini file", but username and password have been stored successfully.

It seems to me that he did not test cached credentials in the registry but rather just to the RCC.ini file. Otherwise why would he be having issues with a xxx.ini file. As such my guess is that this scenerio has not been tested and simply does not work.

Scenerio:-

1. credentials cached to registry (not to an RCC.ini file).
2. on a terminal sever WIN2003
3. for a remotely connected user
4. where the user is not an administrator.

If there is any scope for this issue to be revisited at some time I would really appreciate it.

My best quess is that it relates to the RCC program dialogue not being in focus when the credentials are retrieved from the registry and applied. When it is a console session (instead of a remote session) it seems not to be an issue.